Michelle Ruddell on Do and Don't with Hurting People
What should a person say and not say, do and not do, when someone else is deeply hurting over a severe loss?
Michelle Ruddell offers practical help and gentle reminders in the second part of our conversation about the co-existence of joy and sorrow. Michelle's son was killed in a car wreck at age 5, and Michelle determined she would not allow grief to turn into bitterness.
She courageously shares her journey to empower others through writing and speaking.
You'll want more than one copy of Michelle's book, Welcome to the Club -- I'm Sorry You're Here. This is a great resource to keep on hand for when the world comes crashing down.
Invite Michelle to speak! Your audience will absolutely come away hope-filled!
https://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Club-Im-Sorry-Youre-Here/dp/1795239204/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Visit Stephanie Presents for resources, to book speaking engagements, and get the weekly newsletter, Hi(Impact)!
Click here to order your copy of The Great Brain Remodel of Adolescence or purchase from Amazon
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Transcript
If your desire is to become spiritually stronger, emotionally healthier and relationally smarter, you're at the right place.
Speaker A:Speaker and writer Stephanie Smith inspires and equips you to achieve these three key aims.
Speaker A:If you're a parent, you also learn how to raise empowered kids ready for adulthood.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker B:Hey there.
Speaker B:I am delighted that you are back today for the second part of my conversation with Michelle Riddell.
Speaker B:Hopefully you've had a chance to listen to the first part.
Speaker B:If not, make certain to go back and do that.
Speaker B:Michelle is a speaker, an author and I love her.
Speaker B:Her tagline it's She's a speaker who inspires with unsinkable joy, strength and sorrow, light and darkness and hope beyond circumstances.
Speaker B:And Michelle knows this not just from theory, but she knows it from her own personal life experience.
Speaker B:And last week she shared with us the story of losing her 5 year old son in a car wreck at the same time that she was in this wreck along with her husband when she was 12 weeks pregnant.
Speaker B:And they did have go on to have a beautiful baby girl.
Speaker B:But at the same time that they are welcoming this new life, they're also deeply grieving the loss of a son.
Speaker B:And Michelle speaks and writes about how joy and sorrow can coexist.
Speaker B:And she speaks and writes on other topics as well.
Speaker B:But make sure to visit her website.
Speaker B:It's Michelle M I C H E L L E Riddell R U D D E L L and there will be links in the show notes.
Speaker B:She has a book out that is just a book that you want to be able to have on hand because we never know when someone close to us, a friend, a family member, a neighbor, a colleague, someone in our church, in our community, experiences this tremendous devastating loss.
Speaker B:And oftentimes we don't know what to say that's really going to be helpful.
Speaker B:Not just something that might make us feel better but can do more harm than good.
Speaker B:And this is a book that Michelle has written.
Speaker B:Welcome to the club.
Speaker B:I'm sorry you're here.
Speaker B:You can get that on Amazon.
Speaker B:When you do, make sure to leave a rating and review and you can also get links to that on her website.
Speaker B:She has another book that's coming out actually a couple.
Speaker B:So keep up with her and what she is doing today.
Speaker B:We're going to pick up and continue with this conversation.
Speaker B:And Michelle's just got some fascinating and helpful information for us on how we can be present and be helpful for people who walk through difficult times.
Speaker B:And this isn't just for people who walk through.
Speaker B:Through the loss of a child, because there are a lot of other difficulties that we can walk through ourselves or we can walk through with other people.
Speaker B:So she has some really good practical tips as well as some encouragement for us as individuals.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker B:Without any further.
Speaker B:Oh, actually, I do want to say this.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, The.
Speaker B:The recording quality of our session is.
Speaker B:Is a little bit lacking, and I apologize for that.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, it's one of those things.
Speaker B:The technology was outside of my control when we recorded this, and it also wasn't evident as we were recording some of the things that were going on.
Speaker B:So I've done our best in editing to make this as clear and crisp as possible.
Speaker B:But I still know, hey, editing can only go so far.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's only so much that a person can do.
Speaker B:So if it seems like it's just a little less than what you are accustomed to, stick with it, because there is powerful, encouraging information in here, and you don't want to miss out on that.
Speaker B:All right, and now let's pick up with part two of my conversation with Michelle Riddell.
Speaker C:I think we read the account in Job of his tremendous loss and his grief and, you know, his friends that show up.
Speaker C:And I'm thinking they set a great example for the first week because they didn't say anything.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they at least showed up with their presence.
Speaker C:But it was when they started running their mouths and trying to straighten out Job's theology that they got into trouble.
Speaker C:And I think that that's something, as a Christian Christian that we want to be really mindful of, is that when people are in the midst of deep hurt and pain and suffering, they can sometimes start really questioning God, their theology.
Speaker C:It might not all come out right.
Speaker C:And I think we have a profound example of that in scripture with John the Baptist.
Speaker C:I mean, this is Jesus, cousin.
Speaker C:I mean, he's the one who baptizes him.
Speaker C:He's the one who watched the Holy Spirit descend on him.
Speaker C:He's the one who says, this is the Christ.
Speaker C:This is the one I've been telling you was to come.
Speaker C:And yet, two years later, when John is in prison and he's suffering and he doesn't know what's going to come, he sends his disciples to go, say, are you really the one?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And John didn't somehow, like, turn against Christ.
Speaker C:It was that in the midst of his own pain and suffering, it caused even John the Baptist to question Christ.
Speaker C:So I think that's something that we want to be careful of, is that we don't get so consumed if we feel like we've got to straighten out somebody's theology because of something they say or whatever, that we lose the person because we get more concerned about their right theology.
Speaker C:So what are some of the things that you would just speak to.
Speaker C:To say that you have the practical ways that a person can show up, but what are some of the things that a person needs to be mindful of in terms of just how they're perceiving?
Speaker C:It's not always just even about how I'm.
Speaker C:What I'm saying to somebody else.
Speaker C:It can also be just about the perception that I'm creating in myself.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:Well, they don't seem like.
Speaker C:They seem like they got over that pretty quick.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, we can make those kind of judgments about things.
Speaker C:So how can you help those who are walking alongside someone else, not just with what to say and how to show up, but what do we need to be mindful of that we're telling ourselves and our own.
Speaker C:Our own hearts?
Speaker D:The first thing that comes to mind is.
Speaker D:Is similar to what I said about don't let anybody tell you how to grieve is to not try to judge somebody else's grief process in their journey, like their timetable, like you mentioned.
Speaker D:Oh, they.
Speaker D:They seem to have gotten over that really quickly.
Speaker D:And that's hard.
Speaker D:That's hard to do because we have an idea of what we think this grief process should look like, and we're concerned for our friends and we want to make sure that they're okay.
Speaker D:I would say before you go into conversations with them, to pray that God would give you the words and then just to be there for them in support and to pray for them, to watch for things like maybe like their physical health, to see that they're.
Speaker D:They're eating, they're taking care of themselves.
Speaker D:It's really.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:There's kind of a fine line.
Speaker D:I had a lady that.
Speaker D:That sat by me the day of the funeral.
Speaker D:When we got back to the house and I planted myself in the recliner and she was just there.
Speaker D:Didn't say anything, but she brought me a plate and she brought me water and she brought me in.
Speaker D:She didn't let me move.
Speaker D:You know, she was.
Speaker D:She was just there and she was silent.
Speaker D:I'm a hugger.
Speaker D:Lots of hugs, that one.
Speaker D:That's a tough question.
Speaker D:It really is, because I don't.
Speaker D:I remember the first time I called a friend who had lost a child in a car wreck.
Speaker D:This was several years after our wreck.
Speaker D:This was a Fairly close friend and her son was killed.
Speaker D:And I wanted to call her.
Speaker D:I.
Speaker D:We were now living seven hours apart, so I couldn't go, but I wanted to call her.
Speaker D:But I didn't want to call because on one hand, I knew there was nothing I could say that would take that pain away.
Speaker D:But two, I knew she needed to hear from somebody who'd been there.
Speaker D:It's funny now, because if you ask me to recall that conversation and you ask her to recall that conversation, sounds like two different conversations.
Speaker D:I think the.
Speaker D:The Holy Spirit brings to mind what.
Speaker D:What needs to be said and what, what and causes to stick in our brains, what we need to learn.
Speaker D:Another thing I would say is to.
Speaker D:For me, I had friends that had children the same age that pulled away from me.
Speaker D:And my guess would be that it's because it was painful for them, but that was also painful for me.
Speaker D:There were people that got a little bit.
Speaker D:You could tell it was very awkward for them.
Speaker D:If I tried to.
Speaker D:When I started to talk about Matthew or to.
Speaker D:If somebody reminded me of a story and I went to tell them Matthew story, and they would, I would say, kind of let that person take the lead.
Speaker D:And if they want to talk about that one they lost, then let them talk about sometimes and maybe remember.
Speaker D:Maybe mark down in your calendar the birthday or the anniversary date and some kind of remembrance.
Speaker D:Maybe just a text that says, hey, I'm thinking about you praying for me or something to show that you.
Speaker D:You remember.
Speaker D:They're not going to forget if you don't bring it up.
Speaker D:My mom, my mom was scared to bring it up.
Speaker D:She goes, I don't want to bring up the anniversary day.
Speaker D:Make you sad.
Speaker D:And I'm like, I promise you, I didn't forget that.
Speaker C:That's a great word.
Speaker C:And you've given us just some very practical ways to show up.
Speaker C:And that makes a difference because sometimes if we feel like we don't know what to do, it can be easy.
Speaker C:So it's so empowering to have someone who will say, here's how you can show up now.
Speaker C:You have continued.
Speaker C:This wasn't like you just made these choices for joy and sorrow to be a part of your life.
Speaker C:It wasn't like you just made that choice decades ago.
Speaker C:And then, poof, you hit a point that you didn't have to keep making those choices.
Speaker C:How have you continued throughout your life and even now?
Speaker C:How do you continue to hold joy and sorrow in your life?
Speaker C:And it's not, and I don't just mean only sorrow over Matthew's death, but life brings other sorrows with it.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And so can you speak to that?
Speaker C:Because I also know that there are people who sometimes get into that.
Speaker C:I'm going to compare my sad story to your sad story.
Speaker C:And my sad story might not include the death of a child.
Speaker C:And so I can look at my sadness and kind of go, oh, I guess it doesn't really matter compared to somebody else's.
Speaker C:But the reality is all pain is still pain, right?
Speaker D:And there.
Speaker D:There are different kinds of losses.
Speaker D:It might not be the death of a loved one.
Speaker D:It might be a broken relationship, like a divorce you didn't want, but here it is.
Speaker D:Or a child that.
Speaker D:An adult child that goes their own way, and they're man.
Speaker D:They're making bad choices and they don't talk to you.
Speaker D:And it might be that.
Speaker D:It might be a financial loss, it might be a job loss, it might be the loss of a pet.
Speaker D:There are so many things where that loss comes in.
Speaker D:And it.
Speaker D:That pain is real, that loss is real, that sorrow is real.
Speaker D:And we can't.
Speaker D:We get in trouble when we start comparing ours to other people's.
Speaker D:But I think God's faithfulness is.
Speaker D:I think.
Speaker D:I know God's faithfulness is the same.
Speaker D:And he knows our heart, and he knows those things that bring us sorrow, and he knows how to comfort us.
Speaker D:And he's there for us and he holds us.
Speaker D:We just.
Speaker D:We just ask him and recognize that fact.
Speaker D:The gratitude thing, still, when I've had other losses and other disappointments and I get ticked off and mad and upset and feel sorry for myself, I remember those two friends of mine that said, michelle Riddell, you got to make a gratitude list.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Yeah, so.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:And that helps.
Speaker D:There was a time recently where I.
Speaker D:There was an event at my church, and I got my feelings hurt.
Speaker D:It was all me.
Speaker D:It was.
Speaker D:It was all me.
Speaker D:I was being a brat total.
Speaker D:And I went off in the corner by myself and I made a list of all the things I was feeling overlooked, not seen, not heard, not valued.
Speaker D:And then on the.
Speaker D:I drew a line in the column on the other side and I made.
Speaker D:God says I am chosen.
Speaker D:I'm the daughter of the king.
Speaker D:And made a list of what was true and then got myself up and walked back into that room.
Speaker D:And God used that for an incredible blessing.
Speaker D:And it was an event that we had.
Speaker D:And there was a table and there was a lady sitting there by herself.
Speaker D:And so I went over and I said, I'm Michelle.
Speaker D:Can I sit here with you?
Speaker D:And we connected, and I gave her a ticket to an event I was speaking at months later, and she actually showed up.
Speaker D:And I got to tell her my story that night at the table because she asked.
Speaker D:I didn't just throw it on her.
Speaker D:She asked.
Speaker D:And now to hear her tell it, she was.
Speaker D:She almost didn't come to that event because she would signed up by herself.
Speaker D:And it was raining, it was cold.
Speaker D:She didn't want to come, but she came.
Speaker D:I almost went home because I didn't want to be there either, because I was being a brat.
Speaker D:Well, God put us together, and now we are Facebook friends.
Speaker D:And we.
Speaker D:It.
Speaker D:She text me months later, the morning of the other event when I'm speaking and she text me, she said, I'm praying for you as you speak tonight.
Speaker D:But look how God used that.
Speaker D:Be aware of his direction.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker D:Be aware that what we're feeling is not.
Speaker D:Although it's real, not always.
Speaker D:What true.
Speaker D:Somebody said feelings have a place, but it's not on the throne.
Speaker C:I like the fact that what, you know, what you talked about with this event and you mentioned this, you know, your friend's advice earlier in life, different times that you've done this, and that is, yeah, you didn't ignore your feelings, the negative feelings that you felt.
Speaker C:You didn't just say, oh, I'm just going to act like they're not there.
Speaker C:You gave voice to them.
Speaker C:I mean, you gave voice to those on paper.
Speaker C:And I think that is an important part of this.
Speaker C:There is something about the act of writing something down that makes it real, and it kind of gets it out of us and onto paper or the act of speaking physiologically, there's actually something that happens in our brain when we are carrying around a lot of stress and tension and pain, and we actually talk about it to another person.
Speaker C:There's actually a pressure in our physical brain that decreases when that happens.
Speaker C:And sometimes we're like, why do we feel better?
Speaker C:Well, we actually physically have a response to that.
Speaker C:And maybe, maybe God knew what he was talking about when he said, talk to other people about yourself.
Speaker C:But I think that's really important, Michelle, as you've talked about that, that you're not just saying, hey, dismiss all your negative feelings.
Speaker C:Don't give voice to them.
Speaker C:Don't identify them.
Speaker C:Don't just say, I just kind of feel bad.
Speaker C:You listed specifically the things that you were feeling that were negative, but you didn't stop there.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You come back with, okay, this is what I'm feeling.
Speaker C:So this is my reality.
Speaker C:But this is a higher reality over here that I'm going to choose to align myself.
Speaker C:So I love how you've shared that with us.
Speaker C:So you tell us about your book because I think it's a great title.
Speaker C:Although I'm so sorry that you had the life experiences that led you to write this book.
Speaker C:But tell us about your book because there are not a lot of resources out there that really can help us when we're walking through deeply, deep loss or even this isn't just a book that would be helpful for people that have lost a child, but even for people who are friends and family of someone who's got to know, okay, I can get some help here.
Speaker C:How do I walk alongside this with this person?
Speaker C:So, yeah, so tell, tell us all about it.
Speaker D:Oh, the book is called welcome to the Club.
Speaker D:I'm sorry you're here.
Speaker D:And it's as I talk to other parents who've lost children, that phrase just kind of kept popping up of, welcome to the club, nobody wants to join.
Speaker D:You know, you're now part of the club that nobody wants to join.
Speaker D:And that that phrase kept coming up.
Speaker D:And as I was writing down, I like what you said about the scientific research because I didn't know that.
Speaker D:I just know when I write, I feel better.
Speaker D:But when, as I was writing the stories, I was in a critique group and so I started writing just little bits and pieces of my life story and I didn't know how they were going to come together.
Speaker D:And God says, look, here's this one that deals with the wreck, and this one that deals with the loss of Matthew.
Speaker D:And this one and this one and this one.
Speaker D:Those can help somebody.
Speaker D:And he gave me the title.
Speaker D:And so I started putting those together and making some kind of order.
Speaker D:And it's just, it's a very short book.
Speaker D:It's like 37 pages.
Speaker D:And it's a synopsis of my grief journey and how different things that I went through and how different things helped and how some things didn't.
Speaker D:And I got to the end and God said, that's it.
Speaker D:And I'm like, but there's only 37 pages.
Speaker D:He said, but that's it.
Speaker D:And here's the thing, somebody is new in grief.
Speaker D:They don't want to read a 200 page book.
Speaker D:Maybe later.
Speaker D:But when that grief is fresh and new, you want something short.
Speaker D:I even have a bulleted list in the first page that said, if you're not in a reading mood right now, here's the short verse.
Speaker D:Be gentle with yourself.
Speaker D:Ask God for Help.
Speaker D:Let others help.
Speaker D:Practice gratitude.
Speaker D:It's, it's the bulleted list, but it's, it's a very short version.
Speaker D:It's just a synopsis of my grief journey.
Speaker D:And I have heard from other people who have read it that it has helped them.
Speaker C:Oh, I have no doubt.
Speaker C:And we're going to have information on that in the show notes, so make certain listeners that you, that you get that, even if you feel like, even if you are fortunately not in a situation right now where you need that for yourself, I guarantee you, sooner or later you're going to have a family member, a friend, coworker.
Speaker C:You're going to have someone in your community that is going to experience a tremendous loss and is going to need.
Speaker C:They're going to need you to hand them this book or you're going to need to show up in their life and be present with how you can help with what you've learned in this.
Speaker C:So definitely check that out.
Speaker C:Michelle, you have been such a gift to our audience today, and you're talking about something that is so incredibly difficult and yet the authenticity that you have and that this message that joy and sorrow can coexist.
Speaker C:And I, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if you don't agree with this, but I would say not only can they coexist, but I think if we are going to live our best lives, that they have to coexist.
Speaker C:And the story that you shared from your neighbor and the words that she spoke to you, which obviously came out of tremendous pain, but someone for whom had not made the decisions to also allow joy to coexist.
Speaker C:I mean, that had a real impact.
Speaker C:So share with us any final words.
Speaker C:Tell us also, you are a speaker and I want people to know that.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So, yes, you can invite Michelle to come and speak to your group.
Speaker C:So, Michelle, tell us all things about Michelle Riddell and who you speak to and your topics and all of that.
Speaker C:So give us your full promise.
Speaker D:So I am Michelle Riddell and I would love to come and speak to your group.
Speaker D:I can speak on joy and sorrow.
Speaker D:I can speak on finding joy in the midst of difficulty.
Speaker D:I can speak.
Speaker D:I have a new talk on identity and speak to women's events, conferences, retreats, any of those.
Speaker D:My website is Michelle Riddell.com and has all of my contact information there.
Speaker D:I am a retired teacher, so I love speaking to audiences who want to be there.
Speaker D:And I'm working on.
Speaker D:I have another book that's at the publisher right now that is a devotional for teachers and an anthology that's coming out this fall called Strength in the Storm.
Speaker D:My story is part of that.
Speaker C:Definitely check her out.
Speaker C:Michelle, any last closing words?
Speaker D:You reminded them of my favorite verse.
Speaker D:It says, the joy of the Lord is our strength.
Speaker D:And when we.
Speaker D:We wonder how we find the strength to get through the losses and the sorrow and the hard times, it's through finding that joy.
Speaker B:I just want to thank Michelle for having the courage to come on and to share her story.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes when we go through these devastating experiences, even if they have been a long time behind us, oftentimes we just want to go underground.
Speaker B:We don't want to talk about it, especially openly.
Speaker B:And it takes a lot of courage for a person to speak about these types of events in their lives and what they've learned from it.
Speaker B:And I also love the fact, as you listen to Michelle, there were things that she acknowledged, you know, in.
Speaker B:In her own life, where there were some areas and she had people, she had some good friends who spoke into her life that gave her some practical things that she could do to change her perspective.
Speaker B:And as we go through life, you know, it's never just one choice that we make, and then all of a sudden, we're good from then on out.
Speaker B:I wish that was how it worked, but it doesn't.
Speaker B:We make choice upon choice upon choice that the more that we make the right choices, the more that we have good practices, the more familiar that those become to us and the more natural they become and the easier it is for us to turn to those, especially in life's difficult times.
Speaker B:There's an expression that is often attributed to the Navy seals.
Speaker B:It actually goes back to ancient times, has been changed as a modified just a little bit, but it is that we don't rise to the level of the need.
Speaker B:We fall to the level of our training.
Speaker B:And when hard times hit, it can be romantic to think that, oh, we would be able to just be amazing in those really hard, difficult seasons of life.
Speaker B:But if we're not showing up in the ordinary, everyday parts of life, having good practices, looking at our perspective and then making those changes so it aligns with what is true, then when those hard times come, we won't just automatically become a better person.
Speaker B:And this is one of the reasons that we don't want to wait until circumstances drive us to our knees or drive us to our Bibles or drive us to our Christian communities.
Speaker B:We want to be building these into our lives so that not only when those times come, for us, but when they come for other people, we can be people who really show up in a helpful, meaningful way and we don't just become an added burden by the ignorant or arrogant things that we say.
Speaker B:So again, make sure you visit Michelle's website.
Speaker B:It's Michelle M I C H E L L E Riddell R U D D E L L There will be links in the show notes and invite her to come and speak to your women's event.
Speaker B:She has just a variety of topics that she speaks on and I can guarantee you that she is going to bring biblical truth and scriptural encouragement to your women.
Speaker B:Also, make sure to look at the books that she has and just stay stay connected with her.
Speaker B:While you are online checking out Michelle's site.
Speaker B:If you haven't already, go over to mine stephaniepresence.and sign up for the weekly newsletter High Impact.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes it's just one idea or insight or it's one resource that can change our situation and provide us the information and the help that we need.
Speaker B:Or sometimes it's just a matter of the encouragement that we need for one more day, one more hour, one more week.
Speaker B:So sign up for that while you're there.
Speaker B:And again, share this podcast with others.
Speaker B:Leave a rating and review that really helps other people to know that hey, this is worth listening to.
Speaker B:And as always, if you have a topic or a guest that you would really like to be able to hear or a topic that you want to hear more about, send me an email, fill out the contact form that's on my website.
Speaker B:It's easy to get to get a hold of me and just share that information.
Speaker B:I value that.
Speaker B:I welcome that and I do pay attention to those recommendations and those requests.
Speaker B:All right my friend that is going to close us out for today.
Speaker B:Remember this truth and live like it's true.
Speaker B:Because it is.
Speaker B:You have an impact that is immeasurable, eternal and irreplaceable.
Speaker B:I'll see you next time.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening.
Speaker A:Visit the website stephaniepresents.com and sign up for High Impact to join the mission of building spiritually strong, emotionally healthy and relationally smart women and families.
Speaker A:You can also book Stephanie to speak at your event and check out additional resources.
Speaker A:Together we can invite and equip generations to engage fully in God's grand story.
