What Just Happened?! Resolving Hidden Triggers in Conflict with Donna Scott
Ever had a conversation take a hard left turn that you never saw coming?
Therapist Donna Scott explains how underlying issues can trigger or blow-up conflict and how to handle it successfully. In Part 2 of "Honey, I Shrunk the Conflict," Donna unpacks:
- Time-out and time-in when a conversation gets hijacked
- The importance of validation
- The difference between validation and agreement
- How empathy and apologies don't always go together
Visit Donna's website for her book, The Tapestry of Trauma, and to learn about her counseling, coaching, and speaking engagements!
https://www.donnascotttherapy.com/
Empower yourself and your family to engage fully in God’s grand story. Subscribe to Hi(Impact) at Stephanie Presents for insights, encouragement, and practical resources!
Book Stephanie to speak to your women, parents, Christian educators, and students.
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#emotionalhealth
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#christianfaith
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#empathy
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#conflictresolution
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Transcript
If your desire is to become spiritually stronger, emotionally healthier, and relationally smarter, you're at the right place.
Speaker A:Speaker and writer Stephanie Smith inspires and equips you to achieve these three key aims.
Speaker A:If you're a parent, you also learn how to raise empowered kids ready for adulthood.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Lives Key 3 podcast.
Speaker B:I hope that you've had a chance to listen to last week's episode where we talked with Donna Scott in the first part of our conversation on Honey I Shrunk the Conflict.
Speaker B:We are going to pick up today and continue that dialogue.
Speaker B:And if for some reason you haven't had a chance to listen to that, make certain that you do.
Speaker B:You don't necessarily have to listen to these in order, but you definitely want to catch both parts.
Speaker B:Last week we talked about the difference between criticism and complaints.
Speaker B:We had a conversation about active listening and how you do that.
Speaker B:We also talked about the importance of asking clarifying questions.
Speaker C:And when you're going to have a.
Speaker B:Conflict, at least make sure that it's based on facts and not assumptions or what you think think you understood, but might not have actually been what someone else said.
Speaker B:Also, we focused on the power of praise and we cannot be afraid and think, oh, you know, that person has too much encouragement because none of us ever have that.
Speaker B:Today as we pick up, we're going to continue talking about active listening and what do we do once we've actually understood the other person's meaning?
Speaker B:What they said, not what we think they said, but what they truly said.
Speaker B:And we're going to talk about a lot more.
Speaker B:So make sure that you listen in and then be sure to go to the website Donna Scott Therapy.
Speaker B:Check out her therapy, her counseling, her speaking engagements, and most definitely her book, Tapestry of Trauma, and a resource that you can sign up for right there on her newsletter.
Speaker B:Okay, without any further ado, let's continue our conversation with Donna Scott.
Speaker C:Realizing in my own life that when I've been at places where I felt like I had to say whatever I was going to say in that moment, that probably meant that was not the right time to say it.
Speaker C:Because if.
Speaker C:If I couldn't walk away.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:Then it was like I wasn't.
Speaker C:Maybe what I had to say was perfectly fine, but my heart wasn't in the right place.
Speaker C:Place.
Speaker C:Because everybody isn't always going.
Speaker C:Even if we practice these skills on our end, yes, there's always somebody else on the other end and we cannot expect again, why not perfection from them.
Speaker E:I wish we could.
Speaker E:I really wish we could.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker E:My life would be so much easier.
Speaker E:Yes.
Speaker E:Because it's all about me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, you know, but we, but we have to have that grace that there are going to be times that people, even if we do it all right on our end, they're going to have it back day.
Speaker C:They're going to be tired, they're going to be fatigued, they're going to be going through their own stuff.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker C:And there has to be that grace that some.
Speaker C:We're not talking about a formula here.
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker C:That guarantees if I show up well on my end every single time, the other person's, you know, going to do that, too.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so I like what you're talking about, is that.
Speaker C:That active listening.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker C:And then seeking to clarify requires that I'm in a place where I can do that.
Speaker C:And if somebody comes back and.
Speaker C:No, I wasn't criticizing, you know, your cooking.
Speaker C:I was just commenting that I think this chicken could have been cooked a little bit longer, you know, or whatever, then I have to have the humility to accept that response and not just think in my own head.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, that's what you said, but I don't really think that's what you really meant.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that happens with that.
Speaker F:That absolutely happens.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker E:Well, I say that because I know that that's.
Speaker E:That's what I can say.
Speaker E:So this is basically like free therapy for me.
Speaker C:That's how I'm interpreting it.
Speaker C:So, so I, I like that.
Speaker C:And you know, and also what you pointed out about that kind of one to five ratio.
Speaker C:And, and I have heard that before.
Speaker C:I've even heard higher numbers of like one to seven.
Speaker C:And that's just to get somebody back to zero.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker C:That isn't even, like to move the needle ahead.
Speaker C:That is just to get back to zero.
Speaker C:So, and, and one thing also, I think about, you know, having that.
Speaker C:That praise.
Speaker C:Don't be stingy with that, because I have yet to meet anybody who had too much encouragement going on in their life.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:And I think for most of us, we just look at.
Speaker C:Life doesn't have to be totally falling apart.
Speaker C:There's just enough stuff in life that I don't think there's an excellent process of encouragement that we need to be worried about.
Speaker C:Well, if I encourage somebody too much, you know, then they're going to get arrogant.
Speaker C:I, I don't think too much.
Speaker C:Encourage genuine encouragement is what leads to that.
Speaker C:So talk to us then about the, the understanding that.
Speaker C:That second part of that component.
Speaker F:So the second part Is with the.
Speaker D:Active listening is once you understand and you understand by asking questions and not putting in your own opinion into what.
Speaker F:The other person was saying.
Speaker D:That is crucial, absolutely crucial, it this part of the conversation as the listener.
Speaker D:Because in active listening, we have a speaker and we have a listener.
Speaker D:So I'm really talking to the listeners right now.
Speaker D:And I, and I do like what you said, Stephanie, about, okay, I'm learning this stuff, I'm applying this stuff, but my partner doesn't have these tools.
Speaker D:Even if I paste it in front.
Speaker F:Of his mirror or her mirror, they don't have it.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And it's, it is, it's kind of like when we're praying for our partners to change.
Speaker D:And God is like, but you're the.
Speaker F:One at the throne right now.
Speaker F:Let me deal with him.
Speaker D:I'm working with you.
Speaker D:And so if you have a partner, you know, you're, you're saying something and.
Speaker F:You watch that partner or that child or that employee explode on you, right?
Speaker D:Just like, are you calling me a thief?
Speaker D:Are you calling me right?
Speaker D:And, and they'll just keep going.
Speaker D:And sometimes it takes a minute.
Speaker D:You just kind of got a watch it happen.
Speaker D:And if you can, try to then do.
Speaker F:What did you hear me say to.
Speaker D:Kind of throw open their listening.
Speaker F:You said this?
Speaker D:No, no, no.
Speaker D:I really didn't say that.
Speaker D:I, I didn't.
Speaker F:This is what I said.
Speaker D:And sometimes in, in.
Speaker D:In our woundedness, we hold on to a belief that really isn't validated or we've heard the other thing that happens when we've had an ongoing wound around a certain subject, like, I don't know, washing a car or something.
Speaker D:I'm trying to think of non really personal stuff, but a washing of the car.
Speaker D:So I.
Speaker D:If my husband asked me to wash the car and I'm saying, oh, I don't have time right now.
Speaker D:And he hears, I don't have time for him, or I don't have time for his request that stems from the.
Speaker F:Wound of maybe repeated times he's asked.
Speaker D:Something for me and I haven't done it.
Speaker D:But in that moment, I'm saying, I haven't had time, but I will do it.
Speaker F:All he'll hear is, I haven't had time, which may trigger him.
Speaker D:And when in trigger.
Speaker D:Let me throw this one in for free.
Speaker D:A trigger is you're having a fine conversation and all of a sudden the sponse response has gone from 0 to 100.
Speaker D:And the partner's like, what just happened?
Speaker F:That's what we call a Trigger.
Speaker D:And it's totally subconscious.
Speaker D:That partner doesn't even know they're raising their voice.
Speaker D:They don't even realize or you don't even realize.
Speaker D:You get all heated and it's just coming out of.
Speaker D:And it does not match the conversation in those situations.
Speaker D:Stephanie, that's when I say it's time.
Speaker F:For a timeout, slash time in.
Speaker D:Because you're not going to be at the space once a person is triggered.
Speaker D:I can give you all the tools in the world and that brain has been hijacked and nothing will get through.
Speaker D:But when you take a time out to pause, to pray, to breathe, to pay attention to what's happening inside of.
Speaker F:Yourself, that what is upsetting for me.
Speaker D:In this moment and then the time in at least 30 minutes later, if not longer.
Speaker D:And what I tell my clients is if you call the timeout, it's your responsibility to call the time in.
Speaker D:You say, oh, you know what, we're not getting anywhere.
Speaker D:Let's take a time out.
Speaker D:Let's come back at 6:00.
Speaker D:6:00 comes, you're still heated, still don't feel like you're going anywhere before 6:00.
Speaker D:Hey, hon, I know I said 6:00.
Speaker D:I need more time to pray or think or whatever.
Speaker D:Can we do this at 7 tomorrow?
Speaker F:That other partner will still feel connected.
Speaker D:In the sense of okay.
Speaker D:Because sometimes when the timeout happens, time in never does happen.
Speaker D:So there's that accountability.
Speaker D:You've got to come back to, to.
Speaker F:Resolve that so you can really be understood.
Speaker C:And I like that because it's not just the timeout, it's also that time in.
Speaker C:Because for the other person, yes, they may find it very difficult because they may have their own, their own issues where that can feel like an abandonment.
Speaker D:Yes, exactly.
Speaker C:That can feel like I'm, I'm walking away from you.
Speaker C:I don't want to engage with you, I'm rejecting you.
Speaker C:And so for that, that departing person who's called the time out to say, I think, I think that I can come back to this, you know, at 6:00, let's.
Speaker C:That first person.
Speaker C:This isn't about abandoning you.
Speaker D:Exactly.
Speaker C:This is about me getting myself into a place that I can come back and engage with you in a healthy way.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker C:And that doesn't always make it easy for the person on the other end, especially if they are having that issue of feeling like, but we have to resolve this now.
Speaker C:Now, now, exactly.
Speaker C:Again, the voice of experience here.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But that also can clue that individual in as to what's going on in my life that makes me so fearful of giving this other person space.
Speaker F:Exactly.
Speaker D:And a lot of that, that fear comes because people don't come back.
Speaker D:And so when I give that tool, I said we, that has to be a joint decision before the conflict hits.
Speaker D:So that, that's our agreement.
Speaker D:So when the person does it, they.
Speaker D:The one who is anxious in the relationship and watches their partner pull away.
Speaker D:I help frame it in the sense of if you stay in it, you're.
Speaker F:Going to keep injuring each other, you're.
Speaker D:Going to keep hurting each other.
Speaker F:Instead of resolution, there'll be more injuries.
Speaker F:So to prevent more injuries, you need.
Speaker D:The space to come back, but your.
Speaker F:Partner needs to know you're going to keep your word and come back.
Speaker D:Otherwise, this is what I tell my clients.
Speaker D:You get to tattle to me.
Speaker B:Yeah, doesn't happen.
Speaker D:Which also creates safety for that person who's anxious and afraid that their partner won't honor their word.
Speaker D:So that accountability now, if I'm not in it, right.
Speaker D:Tell God.
Speaker D:I mean, tattle to somebody because you want that healing to happen, you want that connection to happen.
Speaker D:You want to, once you understand, you want to validate what your partner is saying.
Speaker D:And then when you're the person who's speaking, you want to be validated too.
Speaker F:You want to know, oh, that person gets me.
Speaker D:Or if you're the, the listener and.
Speaker F:Your partner is bringing an issue to you and you take responsibility for what's true.
Speaker D:Ah, you're right.
Speaker D:Ah, I didn't think about that.
Speaker F:I really could have cooked the chicken a bit longer.
Speaker F:Really, really could have.
Speaker F:Not make excuses.
Speaker D:And if, if an apology is necessary.
Speaker F:Because not always is there apology necessary.
Speaker D:If it's something you've done wrong and, and your partner's sharing that or your, even your child.
Speaker D:I had, I think my son was.
Speaker F:14 and I told him to clean.
Speaker D:The kitchen and he cleaned the kitchen.
Speaker F:But he hadn't cleaned the counter.
Speaker D:So I was like, I need you.
Speaker F:To finish the counter.
Speaker D:And I watched him get angry.
Speaker D:And my child, my son at the time, he's kind of even tempered and he was so upset he cleaned the counter and stopped talking and went upstairs.
Speaker F:And closed his door.
Speaker D:But you know, body language, disrespect me.
Speaker D:What's wrong with you?
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker D:So I go throw it up the stairs, knock on the door, open it.
Speaker D:He is curled up in his bed and I'm saying, what is the matter with you?
Speaker D:And he would not talk.
Speaker D:I'm like, ah, I'm a black mom.
Speaker D:So I'm like, you ain't disrespect.
Speaker D:You're going to talk to me, right?
Speaker D:So he finally turned over, he said, you always pick out what I don't do right, Wrong.
Speaker D:And you focus on what I do wrong and you don't acknowledge what I do right.
Speaker D:And Stephanie, I'm telling you, my first filter was, no, I don't.
Speaker D:No, I don't.
Speaker D:I, I see that, I say that.
Speaker D:And I, I kid you not, the.
Speaker F:Holy Spirit stopped me and said, think about it.
Speaker F:When was the last time you acknowledged what he was doing right?
Speaker D:And I could not think of anything.
Speaker F:So I heard him, I understood where.
Speaker D:He was coming from and I was.
Speaker F:Able to validate him and said, you're right, I apologize.
Speaker F:I need to do better in that.
Speaker D:And then he let me hug him.
Speaker F:Because he, my 14 year old son.
Speaker D:Was crying in bed.
Speaker F:He was so hurt, so hurt.
Speaker D:And I told him, his other siblings, they owe you gratitude because I praise everybody now.
Speaker C:So can you, can you talk to us?
Speaker C:What is the difference between validating someone in a situation where you, you know, you honestly look at it, Unlike this situation that you just mentioned where you look at it and say, I really don't feel that I've done something wrong that I need to apologize for?
Speaker C:How do you validate someone that you, you don't feel the need to apologize for and also you still don't agree with?
Speaker C:What's the difference between validating and agreeing?
Speaker F:Good question.
Speaker E:In less than 90 seconds, Donna, give us the answer to that.
Speaker D:Miracles.
Speaker D:Lord, Talk to me, Lord.
Speaker E:No, Take all the time you need because that's, that's tough.
Speaker D:That it is very tough because generally there's an assumption that happened and the wound.
Speaker D:And I'm saying generally because, you know.
Speaker F:Sometimes there really is a wounding that the person doesn't see.
Speaker D:So the, when I, there's a difference between dismissing and validating.
Speaker D:So if my, okay, let's say I had been complimenting my son, you know, great kitchen, great job, right?
Speaker D:And he's like upset because I don't.
Speaker F:I only pick on him.
Speaker D:The validation is, I see your pain, I see you're hurting versus you have no right to cry.
Speaker F:You have no right to be upset with me.
Speaker F:That's dismissing.
Speaker D:And if I haven't done anything wrong, that does not negate the impact of.
Speaker F:What he's feeling and experiencing.
Speaker F:We're in relationship because our relationships matter.
Speaker F:We don't want to create more pain.
Speaker D:For our loved one.
Speaker D:So I would be able to Say.
Speaker F:To him something like, I can tell that's really upsetting to you.
Speaker D:And I see those tears that, you know, my family's like, we're not a therapist.
Speaker D:Okay, I get it.
Speaker D:I get it.
Speaker D:But it really is moving you out of the way to the part I.
Speaker D:I also talk about when whoever brings up the issue is the one that.
Speaker F:Needs to be heard.
Speaker D:Because another thing that tends to happen is, oh, I didn't wash the car.
Speaker D:Well, you didn't balance the budget.
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker D:It becomes the battle of the battles.
Speaker D:It's like, oh, well, that reminds me of that.
Speaker D:Well, what happens is neither one is validated, because then you're clashing and trying.
Speaker F:To prove your point.
Speaker F:So the validation is.
Speaker D:Let me make sure I'm understanding what you're saying.
Speaker F:You're saying that because I asked you.
Speaker D:To walk clean the counter and did.
Speaker F:Not acknowledge how you have washed and put away every single dish, that makes.
Speaker D:You feel like nothing you do right Matters.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker F:That's how it feels.
Speaker D:You know what?
Speaker F:I get you feeling that way.
Speaker D:Can I remind you of a time.
Speaker F:Yesterday when I thank you for putting away the towels?
Speaker D:Can I remind you of a time.
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker D:And they still might not hear you.
Speaker D:And that's okay.
Speaker F:That's okay.
Speaker D:And please don't do the I'm sorry you feel that way.
Speaker D:That's dismissive too, because you're really saying.
Speaker D:You're really saying, well, let me just end this right now, because there's no, oh, gosh, that's gotta hurt.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's gotta hurt.
Speaker D:Because my husband would not have owned.
Speaker F:Me, owed me an apology for not sitting with me.
Speaker F:Right?
Speaker D:But if I had went to him and said, I feel like you didn't.
Speaker F:Care about me because you wouldn't come.
Speaker D:Sit with me when I was cold in church, and he literally had a valid reason, and if he responded but the text was dead.
Speaker D:What, that's not my fault.
Speaker F:Okay, I'm dismissed.
Speaker D:But if he says, oh, I'm sorry, that must have been really hard for.
Speaker F:You, knowing you were cold and feeling like I didn't hear you or care about you.
Speaker F:Right?
Speaker D:Whether he said, I said sorry, but it's just that.
Speaker D:Oh, that was.
Speaker F:That would suck.
Speaker F:Right?
Speaker D:Just that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker D:Get me?
Speaker C:Right, Right?
Speaker C:Yeah, I validated you.
Speaker C:But I'm not.
Speaker C:I'm not back here going, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker C:Because it's like, well, it's not my fault, you know, the phone died, but it's not right.
Speaker C:So it's not taking a false responsibility for Something, you know, some.
Speaker C:Someone didn't have, nor is it blaming.
Speaker D:You for feeling the feel.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And one of the things, you know, kind of this example that you've used with your son and I can understand is also that kind of a clue of how somebody hears love.
Speaker C:And because we may be thinking that we're saying.
Speaker C:And we may very much be saying all.
Speaker C:All of these things, you know, words of affirmation and all of that, but it.
Speaker C:It might not have the impact in a person.
Speaker C:There might be a way that something to do that would communicate love more effectively to them and that provides that opportunity to.
Speaker C:To hear that.
Speaker C:So there's some.
Speaker C:I've got to have you back on.
Speaker B:I've got to have you back on.
Speaker C:Because there's so many things here that I would love to.
Speaker C:To be able to follow up on, really.
Speaker C:Because we've just touched the surface of this and there's so many n.
Speaker C:And also application of how do you do things when you have somebody who's really, truly not.
Speaker C:Doesn't have the equal level of commitment to acquiring and utilizing tools.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:Because everybody doesn't always have the same level of commitment at the same time.
Speaker C:And that doesn't mean somebody's on the way out the door, but it can mean that.
Speaker C:Okay, there's.
Speaker C:There's not that, you know, the same commitment to.
Speaker C:To growth in the relationship.
Speaker C:So how.
Speaker C:You know, that's just one of the things.
Speaker C:So anyway, so I will be following up with you because I definitely.
Speaker C:But I know that you need to go.
Speaker C:So you also have a book.
Speaker C:You have the Tapestry of Trauma.
Speaker C:You're a speaker, a counselor.
Speaker C:So I want people to know, how do they get in touch with you?
Speaker C:How do they access.
Speaker C:And I will have links in the show notes, but I also want for people who.
Speaker C:Maybe they're.
Speaker C:They're hearing this and.
Speaker C:And they can go ahead and do something without accessing the show notes, tell people where they can come find you about your book, about your offerings and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker F:Okay.
Speaker D:Well, you can find me@donnascotttherapy.com I know that's pretty long, but it's my name.
Speaker D:Therapy.com.
Speaker D:as Stephanie said, I am a speaker.
Speaker D:I absolutely delight in helping hurting hearts heal.
Speaker D:And part of that is empowering Christian women to find their voice that has been silenced.
Speaker D:We generally tend to sit on our pain and take care of everyone else but ourselves.
Speaker D:We are stuck in marriages that.
Speaker D:Oh, till death do us part.
Speaker D:And that dream of a marriage becomes a nightmare.
Speaker D:But as Christians we feel locked in.
Speaker D:But Jesus said, I came that you.
Speaker F:Might have abundant life.
Speaker D:And so I love to equip and empower, either as a listener, if you have me as a speaker, or as.
Speaker F:A therapist in California, life coach if.
Speaker D:You'Re in other states and the tapestry of trauma.
Speaker D:My book, transforming the tangles of childhood sexual abuse into God's masterpiece was God given because there's so many adult children of childhood sexual abuse that still haven't.
Speaker F:Open their mouth to share their story.
Speaker D:So to know that they're not the only ones hurting.
Speaker D:And even though the book focuses on childhood sexual abuse, it really has tools to help anyone with any kind, whether it's physical, emotional.
Speaker D:I'm so grateful they honor that emotional abuse is painful in some ways more than physical abuse, because those scars and those thoughts and those words and those criticisms, they just stay on your heart and you don't know what to do with them.
Speaker D:So that's my passion, to help empower and equip people to have the life that God called them to have as masterpieces.
Speaker B:Make sure to visit Donna's website, Donna Scott Therapy.
Speaker B:She is a speaker.
Speaker B:She has resources.
Speaker B:She has a phenomenal book that you're going to want to get and check that out for yourself and also for other people that you know that might benefit from her speaking, her book, her work as, as a coach and as a counselor.
Speaker B:All right, my friend, that's going to wrap us up for today.
Speaker B:Be back next week with another fresh episode and more guest interviews coming up.
Speaker B:Remember this, you have an impact that is immeasurable, eternal and irreplaceable.
Speaker A:Thank you for listen.
Speaker A:Visit the website stephaniepresents.com and sign up for High Impact to join the mission of building spiritually strong, emotionally healthy and relationally smart women and families.
Speaker A:You can also book Stephanie to speak at your event and check out additional resources.
Speaker A:Together we can invite and equip generations to engage fully in God's grand story.
