Breaking Up With Insecurity, Cheryl Lutz, Part 2
"Perfect pastor's wife" Cheryl Lutz exchanged her shaky identity, dependent on keeping others happy, with one grounded in accepting Christ's love. She continues sharing her hope-filled message in the second part of our conversation.
Today's highlights include:
- The importance of recognizing patterns in ourselves that point to a need for growth and/or healing
- Discerning when to seek counsel and what kind
- The necessary, albeit often difficult role, of community in the healing process
- How emotional and relational maturity is equally important to spiritual knowledge
- Why self-awareness is vital in recognizing the messages triggers and emotional responses are trying to teach
Visit Cheryl's website to order her book, find other resources, and inquire about her speaking ministry! https://www.cheryllutz.com/
Order Securely Held: Finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace for yourself and recommend for your ladies' event, small group, or Bible study!
Empower yourself and your family to engage fully in God’s grand story. Subscribe to Hi(Impact) at Stephanie Presents for insights, encouragement, and practical resources!
Book Stephanie to speak to your women, parents, Christian educators, and students.
#spirituallystrong
#emotionalhealth
#relationships
#bible
#faith
#truth
#biblestudy
#christianfaith
#christianwomen
#christianity
#lifeskey3
#identity
#identityinchrist
#cheryllutz
#securelyheld
#emotionalstability
#emotionalintelligence
Transcript
If your desire is to become spiritually stronger, emotionally healthier and relationally smarter, you're at the right place.
Speaker A:Speaker and writer Stephanie Smith inspires and equips you to achieve these three key aims.
Speaker A:If you're a parent, you also learn how to raise empowered kids ready for adulthood.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker B:Welcome Back to the Lives Key 3 podcast.
Speaker B:We are continuing today our discussion with Cheryl Lutz.
Speaker B:Cheryl is a certified coach, she is a speaker, an author, and we are continuing our discussion that centers around her book Securely Held and how we can find and establish her identity in Christ and not in other ways, especially things like people pleasing.
Speaker B:We talked with Cheryl on last week's episode and we're continuing that conversation today.
Speaker B:We're going to start looking at patterns.
Speaker B:How we recognize patterns in ourselves and in our relationships that can point us to something that we need to address as growth in our life.
Speaker B:Recognizing patterns is a very fundamental way to be able to see what's working and what's not working in ourselves and in relationships.
Speaker B:So get ready, lean in, listen up, because you are going to love what Cheryl shares with us today.
Speaker C:For someone who is listening to this and hears maybe she's very early in this journey and she's just starting to see some things that are patterns in her life.
Speaker C:And that's a big thing for me is being able to see patterns in a relationship.
Speaker C:And sometimes patterns are kind of short lived and we can see those play out like, you know, over a day, just like we have the rotation of the earth, you know, that happens every 24 hours.
Speaker C:But then there's the revolution of the earth around the sun and that takes a whole year.
Speaker C:And sometimes patterns don't always play out in these short term.
Speaker C:We don't always measure them in minutes or days.
Speaker C:Sometimes they might play out over a course of a year or several years.
Speaker C:So someone who's starting this process of going, you know, I'm, I'm seeing these patterns in how I show up in life, maybe in one area in particular, or it might be in general and is starting to do this work of investigating why do I have this pattern in my life.
Speaker C:What would you advise her to do?
Speaker D:Definitely pray.
Speaker D:I know that sounds so cliche, but starting with really praying specifically for wisdom on how the Lord is going to help you get help.
Speaker D:Because when you're recognizing it, I promise you, he is there to guide you.
Speaker D:He wants you walking that healing journey and so he will give you wisdom.
Speaker D:Because Stephanie, as you know, not all counselors, not all community is safe and if you go somewhere to a counselor or a community to work through this and it's not as safe, you end up more burdened, more hurt, more shame.
Speaker D:And that's not what God wants.
Speaker D:And so praying for wisdom.
Speaker D:Lord, do I need.
Speaker D:I needed a professional therapist.
Speaker D:Lord, do I need a professional therapist?
Speaker D:Lord, is there a trained, you know, Bible counselor that could help me or a life coach sometimes, depending on the, you know, what the issue is, it could be a godly woman in the church that is able to help you see things and walk through, or it could be, again, a psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, you know, but praying and asking the Lord to show you.
Speaker D:Because when we try to do it on.
Speaker D:I tried to do as a child, I didn't really know where to turn for help.
Speaker D:I was just trying to stay out of the way and not get anybody upset.
Speaker D:So I learned to work through things on my own and try to figure out things on my own.
Speaker D:And when we're stuck in our head like that, we need outside.
Speaker D:God created us for community.
Speaker D:You know, the strengths and the weaknesses of the body coming together to help each other.
Speaker D:And so just saying, Lord, it's not.
Speaker D:This is not a shameful thing that I need help.
Speaker D:This is a good thing that you're going to take me on this healing journey and you're going to show me a safe space to begin working through these things and not just slapping Bible verses, different things like, you know, absolutely, go to the word of God.
Speaker D:Stephanie knows me, I love the word of God.
Speaker D:But we can misapply it, you know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, we saw that when Satan was tempting Jesus in the wilderness.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, he uses scripture.
Speaker C:One of the things that I have come to recommend to people is that when you first speak to, whether it's a life coach or a counselor or whatever, I would approach interviewing them first because there is something about the way that we typically structure counseling.
Speaker C:We go in with this person we don't really have any connection with usually.
Speaker C:And by the time we can start opening up and sharing our from ourselves pretty vulnerably, and that can create a connection to them.
Speaker C:I mean, it's a good connection.
Speaker C:And that connection needs to happen in order for there to be help.
Speaker C:But we can end up creating a connection with somebody that it turns it, they might not just be a good fit for us.
Speaker C:I mean, it's not necessarily that they're a bad counselor or they're unsafe or nefarious or anything.
Speaker C:They just may not be a good fit.
Speaker C:So that's just a tip I'm throwing in there.
Speaker C:For those of you that are listening, if you haven't done any counseling before, don't be afraid to approach it like, hey, this is somebody that I'm going to invest time and energy and depth with and probably money.
Speaker C:And so I'm going to approach this as I want to get to know this person and their style and their method and how they work with people before I just come in and start spelling my whole life story.
Speaker C:That's kind of a lesson learned for me.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So with that, you know, that's dovetails into one of the reasons that I have my personal mission, which is to help build people who are spiritually strong, emotionally healthy, and relationally smart, those categories.
Speaker C:So I want to be able to get back out of that.
Speaker C:You have this unique vantage point because you've been a retired pastor's wife, you've been that Bible teacher, you're also a counselor.
Speaker C:And sometimes we focus so much in Christian on the spiritually strong.
Speaker C:If we have our theology right, we have our doctrine, we have all the Bible verses right, that we can quote, then that's going to be enough.
Speaker C:And that's the mark of being a good Christian.
Speaker C:And we're not being dishonest.
Speaker C:It's just kind of like that's pretty much what we've often been taught in a very narrow sense as to what the gospel is.
Speaker C:So even though I don't really like dividing up emotional health and relational wisdom from being spiritually strong, because I think those things are all integrated, but I do divide those up so that we don't just think in terms of, well, if I do the right things, and I know I have the right theology and all of that.
Speaker C:So what do you see is a connection for people who, they may have a lot of Bible knowledge, they have a genuine love for God, but how do they assess whether they are actually walking in emotional health and being relationally smart?
Speaker C:How do those things tie together?
Speaker D:How are you responding in a meeting when you disagree with someone or you feel very disrespected by them?
Speaker D:How are you responding in those situations, or how are you reacting?
Speaker D:Are you reacting in anger or shame or these different things?
Speaker D:What emotions is that dredging up?
Speaker D:Because, you know, I've seen people in the church, and I was one of them.
Speaker D:I'm sure you look at this man, he's an elder, and he's a godly man, and he knows the Word, and you know that, and you know he does care about people, and then you see him lose it in A meeting.
Speaker D:When he gets angry about something, you know, the way he's interacting with another person in the church.
Speaker D:And there's some emotional immaturity or some relational immaturity, probably because a trauma or pain point that we haven't addressed.
Speaker D:Why am I so upset about that?
Speaker D:There's got to be something deeper, you know, and just looking at those things and Lord, the Lord wants us spiritually strong, emotionally strong and relationally strong, and doesn't mean that you're.
Speaker D:Or that you're not being honest.
Speaker D:You know, you love the word, you're in the word.
Speaker D:But when you have those relational immaturities, okay, Lord, what do you want to show me that I need to work through so I'll be more strong?
Speaker D:I mean, for myself?
Speaker D:Stephanie.
Speaker D:I remember how crushing it was someone didn't like.
Speaker D:I mean, I was the one, like, everybody liked Cheryl.
Speaker D:She was good.
Speaker D:She was quiet.
Speaker D:You know, she was nice.
Speaker D:I had to examine, why was that so crushing if someone didn't like me?
Speaker D:It was like an identity to be liked, to keep people happy.
Speaker D:And that's not relationally healthy.
Speaker D:We want to be truthful and godly in these things.
Speaker D:And sometimes we'll be liked for that, and sometimes we will be disliked for that.
Speaker D:At the end of the day, what does this mean to the father?
Speaker D:Am I pleasing the father in this?
Speaker D:Then I have to let go this person that doesn't like me.
Speaker D:That's not.
Speaker D:We can separate that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And like you said, that is a process.
Speaker C:So as I've been listening to, and I love how you talk about, a good place to begin is to say, how am I responding?
Speaker C:What things are triggering emotions in me.
Speaker C:And even if I'm not acting out those emotions, developing the self awareness to say, yes, but there's something in me that's being triggered that doesn't seem quite right.
Speaker C:You've talked about anger.
Speaker C:You've talked about people pleasing.
Speaker C:You've talked also about minimizing.
Speaker C:You're trying to talk yourself out of hurt so that it gets reduced to a level that you can handle.
Speaker C:Do you have other things that you could say?
Speaker C:These are some things maybe to identify because it's not just anger, right?
Speaker C:That obvious kind of, oh, that person's got an issue because they blow up and scream and yell or throw things or, you know, whatever.
Speaker C:There's those kinds of things.
Speaker C:But assessing how we're doing and like you said, just being crushed when somebody doesn't like me, rather than being like, oh, man, saddened by that, I think would be being Crushed by that, you know, is something different despite anything else that are kind of clues.
Speaker C:So somebody gets curious about this in their life that they might kind of.
Speaker D:Go, oh, I think another thing we haven't talked about because when I am sharing this message or even talking to a friend, sometimes people will say, you know, I never really was the people pleaser.
Speaker D:And I can see one of my best friend, she, she's truth.
Speaker D:And you know, and so that was never her primary mode.
Speaker D:But then I'll say, so Paulie, what about perfectionism?
Speaker D:Oh yeah, I mean she, because if she doesn't do it perfectly, it's not just that she messed up like she is messed up, it's an identity.
Speaker D:And that stems from never getting her parents approval, never having, you know, getting like we talked about, she would have straight A's.
Speaker D:But what, well, what, what's, you know, never being acknowledged and never being good enough and so always having to be perfect, do things perfectly.
Speaker D:If you're placing your identity in that, that's another, that's a symptom.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So being able to say, oh, wait a minute, it doesn't always have to be a response that's triggered by another person.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's paying attention to the responses that we trigger in ourselves.
Speaker C:Oh, I didn't get the house cleaned the way that I wanted today.
Speaker C:Oh, I didn't run that meeting as efficiently as I had intended to do.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:But we still haven't lived up to our own expectation and our own internal voice is saying, you know, and usually speaking in words of condemnation and words of shame.
Speaker C:From your vantage point, do you see areas where, where as Christians we are making improvement in these areas of expanding and the gospel, which has always been about the whole person, it's never just been about acquiring the right amount of knowledge.
Speaker C:It's always been about redeeming the wholeness of who we are.
Speaker C:Do you see things that are moving us in a good direction just on a, on a cultural level?
Speaker C:And again, I'm talking within the church here.
Speaker C:Do you any things that, that you would just say these are things that people can do not just for their own benefit, but helping to move us as a body of believers so that this becomes part of our corporate identity as the body of Christ?
Speaker D:That's a very good question, Stephanie.
Speaker D:God created us for community.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And if we're honest, our, our deepest hurts came from community.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But also our greatest healing is going to be done in community as well.
Speaker D:You know, when we, when we get in that safe spot, it's not going to be perfect.
Speaker D:I'm still going to hurt your feelings.
Speaker D:You're still going to hurt my feelings.
Speaker D:But we're going to be spiritually mature and relationally mature that we can not respond the ways we used to.
Speaker C:No, I love that you talk about that with community.
Speaker C:And just some of the research in the broad culture is showing that on one hand, we have never been more connected on a global level.
Speaker C:On the other hand, the record number of people who are lonely is skyrocketing countries now around the world that are appointing an official government position as to deal with loneliness.
Speaker C:I mean, a loneliness czar.
Speaker C:Who would have thought, you know, that.
Speaker D:You could feel very alone.
Speaker C:Community is developing those relationships.
Speaker C:And again, that's an easy thing to sit here and do.
Speaker C:But it's not like you just walk into your, you know, your neighborhood church and put up a friend wanted sign and then people sign up and poof, you know, there it is.
Speaker C:But taking that risk and just starting not by, okay, I'm going to invite somebody out for lunch and tell them my whole life story because they might not be able to handle that depending on where they are.
Speaker C:But I'm going to get to know them a little bit and then I'm going to maybe reveal one small thing about myself and I'm going to see how they respond.
Speaker C:Do they hold that in with respect and dignity?
Speaker C:And then also over time, one way that I've learned to kind of evaluate relationships that have the potential to grow into a meaningful debt, do that.
Speaker C:Because we can't sustain every relationship like that.
Speaker C:But for those that do, and that is to see if someone also reciprocates.
Speaker C:Because someone who is always there to, oh, I'm here to listen and I will absorb, but I'm never going to open up and talk to you at a certain point, that relationship.
Speaker C:Well, that's right.
Speaker C:So just kind of try to make this like a practical.
Speaker C:How do we actually go build community.
Speaker C:Yes, because again, it's one of those things that's easy to say and it can be a little hard to do.
Speaker C:Here you are, you are someone who has dealt with this people pleasing tendency starting at a very young age.
Speaker C:And so of all things, you decide to become an author.
Speaker C:Because of course, there's no rejection that a person experiences when they are an author and a speaker.
Speaker C:Yeah, just like setting yourselves up there for not just rejection, but for criticism.
Speaker C:Even if it's constructive criticism.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That's part of this whole process.
Speaker C:How did you get to the point that you could write this book securely held, and then put it out.
Speaker C:And so talk to us about that.
Speaker C:Not just that journey, but talk to us about the message to somebody that's listening and is saying, I don't know, I mean, is this another one of those books I'm going to get and it's just going to sit on my shelf?
Speaker C:Or hey, is this a book that really has the power to.
Speaker C:For me to grow and to trans transform my life?
Speaker C:Share with us a bit more about that message that you have.
Speaker D:Yeah, it was a God thing that I wrote a book, Stephanie, because when he first, it was about 11 years ago, almost 12 now, when I felt him say, you know, share your story.
Speaker D:And I said, no, I don't think I'm going to do that.
Speaker D:You know, I don't want to do that.
Speaker D:It was deaf.
Speaker D:So then I go, I would start and stop.
Speaker D:And it was.
Speaker D:It was a process.
Speaker D:Part of it, yes, was trying to run from it.
Speaker D:Part of it was procrastination.
Speaker D:But there was also a part I still had more healing to do.
Speaker D:He was still writing and he's still writing my story, obviously.
Speaker D:But there were some more things for me to work through.
Speaker D:And if anybody listening happens to feeling like they're supposed to write a book, you don't write from a place of pain.
Speaker D:A measure of healing before you start sharing these things or it comes out very emotionally or very angry, and that's not going to help others.
Speaker D:But it was securely held belief.
Speaker D:God put on my heart is this scriptural example, this person that has walked through something and have been touched by the Savior, and then a personal story from me and then a personal story from someone else all along that same lines.
Speaker D:And so some readers might be able to relate to my story, but some people might relate better to the other woman that shared.
Speaker D:For example, when we were looking at Hagar, my friend Missy just sharing her story about God, literally like he came, went and found Hagar and the way he went and found her from this drug home of alcoholics and drug dealers, he literally saw her and went and found her and rescued her.
Speaker D:And so, yeah, stories like that, that I think, oh, Lord, these stories are just so beautiful and they need to be told and how that relates to a scriptural character and brings it all home.
Speaker D:So I think women will see themselves, they'll see ones that they love and they'll see the healing.
Speaker D:I mean, if you meet Missy, she's the most beautiful, godly.
Speaker D:She looks like a Sunday school teacher.
Speaker D:You'd never guess the kind of home you know, and so it gives women that hope because God did that for her.
Speaker D:He wants to do it for them.
Speaker D:He wants to bring through that healing process.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I think that no matter what your background, you know, has been as a kid, I don't think anybody escaped childhood without wins.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Whether they are come from parents, siblings, teachers, coaches.
Speaker C:I mean, you don't spend 18 years living on this planet with other people and not have some things that, that hurt you, that scare you, that frighten you.
Speaker C:So nobody get is even people that are like, I had this great family.
Speaker C:You know, I grew up in a Christian home.
Speaker C:I can't.
Speaker C:I didn't grow up, you know, with drugs.
Speaker C:I didn't grow up with, you know, people that have grown up in tremendously physically violent and abusive people that feel like I can't relate to that.
Speaker C:So I guess this doesn't apply to me.
Speaker C:But the reality is that all of us are shaped by 18 years of experience.
Speaker C:And it's not just about parents.
Speaker C:It's also about all of those people that had an influence.
Speaker C:And it doesn't just end at 18.
Speaker C:Again, people can have a significant impact on us.
Speaker C:So you're also a speaker and a counselor.
Speaker C:And so for people that want to know more about you, where do they come?
Speaker C:How do they get in touch with you?
Speaker C:How do they get this book Securely Held?
Speaker C:Finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace?
Speaker C:Where.
Speaker C:Where do they come to discover and connect with you?
Speaker D:Yeah, I love to connect on social media.
Speaker D:On Instagram, it's Cheryl securely Held.
Speaker D:And then I have a Facebook page, Cheryl Pelton Lutz Securely Held.
Speaker D:On my website, I have books that I can autograph and mail that way it's Cheryl Lutz dot com.
Speaker D:It's also on Amazon and it's in an ebook on Amazon.
Speaker D:Those are the ways if people are looking for.
Speaker D:If we have women's ministry directors looking for a speaker, I do have a speaker page on my website and cheryl lutz.com shows the style and the topics, okay?
Speaker C:And we will put links to those things in the show notes.
Speaker C:So if you are out driving or you're running or walking six dogs or trying to wrestle your toddler into their clothes or whatever, you can't go jot that down right now.
Speaker C:Then come back and find those links and everything in the show notes.
Speaker C:So lastly, Char, I'm going to ask you this question.
Speaker C:What are you most excited about?
Speaker C:And it can be more than one thing, but what are you excited about for yourself as you look to the future.
Speaker D:I am excited and I never thought I would say this.
Speaker D:I never wanted to write a book.
Speaker D:I never wanted to be a speaker.
Speaker D:I never wanted to have a podcast.
Speaker D:It's just a process God brought me through and it does bring me joy because I've been obedient.
Speaker D:But I want to continue writing and I'm thinking of a Bible study right now that I want to write and a devotional.
Speaker C:So when you get those done, you let me know.
Speaker C:We'll have you back on share about those as well.
Speaker C:So, Cheryl, thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker C:And so for listeners, I just want to encourage you to check out Cheryl's book and also her website again for women's ministry even, or you don't have to be a women's ministry event coordinator.
Speaker C:If you are part of a church or organization that hosts any kind of women's gathering, then you can connect with Cheryl and facilitate connecting with the right person that books for those events.
Speaker C:But also encourage you to get this book and think about not just getting one, but think about getting two because you probably know somebody, at least one person in your circle that would also benefit.
Speaker C:And this is one of those ways that you can also facilitate community.
Speaker C:Get several, you know, do a book reading together or get it for yourself and a friend and go through it together because there's power there in being able to walk through these processes and these journeys with another person.
Speaker C:And if you're, if you've been a listener on the Lives K3 podcast, then you know that I am big on scripture because it is the living, active word of God that has a power unlike any other kind of words.
Speaker C:So in addition, not in replacement of, but in addition to the knowledge and the encouragement that we receive from books like Securely Held, get into the Word for yourself because those words have the power to bring insight and awareness and other.
Speaker C:Okay, well, Cheryl, thank you and listeners.
Speaker C:You know, I always close out the podcast with this and so it is absolutely true.
Speaker C:And Cheryl, I know this is very much true for you.
Speaker C:You have an impact that is immeasurable, eternal and irreplaceable.
Speaker C:We'll see you next time.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening.
Speaker A:Visit the website stephaniepresents.com and sign up for High Impact to join the mission of building spiritually strong, emotionally healthy and relationally smart women and families.
Speaker A:You can also book Stephanie to speak at your event and check out additional resources.
Speaker A:Together we can invite and equip generations to engage fully in God's grand story.
