When "Perfect" Fails: Cheryl Lutz, Part 1
Cheryl Lutz shares how she moved from "perfect" pastor's wife to secure daughter of God! and how to exchange people pleasing for a secure identity.
Cheryl courageously shares her personal journey, revealing how past traumas and the relentless pursuit of perfection—a misguided endeavor often cloaked in spirituality—can lead to profound emotional and physical crises.
Cheryl uses her experience as a clarion call for listeners to reassess their own identities and the roots of their emotional struggles. She wants others to know that true security and significance are found in their relationship with God, rather than in societal approval, even if that society is other Christians.
A certified Bible counselor and author of the impactful book Securely Held: Finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace, Cheryl brings hope to the pervasive issue of insecurity and the incessant human desire for validation.
Connect with Cheryl at: www.CherylLutz.com and order a copy of her book, Securely Held: Finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace.
Check out her other merch and availability as a speaker!
Empower yourself and your family to engage fully in God’s grand story. Subscribe to Hi(Impact) at Stephanie Presents for insights, encouragement, and practical resources!
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Transcript
If your desire is to become spiritually stronger, emotionally healthier, and relationally smarter, you're at the right place.
Speaker A:Speaker and writer Stephanie Smith inspires and equips you to achieve these three key aims.
Speaker A:If you're a parent, you also learn how to raise empowered kids ready for adulthood.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker B:I'm delighted to welcome to the Lives K3 podcast Cheryl Lutz.
Speaker B:I've had the privilege of spending some time with Cheryl at a ladies retreat and I can absolutely tell you she is the real deal.
Speaker B:She is a ton of.
Speaker B:And she's also quite accomplished.
Speaker B:She is a certified Bible counselor, a Bible teacher, a speaker, an authority, and to boot, a retired pastor's wife.
Speaker B:Cheryl, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker C:Thank you, Stephanie.
Speaker C:I am delighted to be here with you.
Speaker B:And we've had a few technical issues.
Speaker B:Cheryl has authored a book called Securely Held Finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace.
Speaker B:And we're going to start with that topic today in our conversation because this is a mission that you are on.
Speaker B:This isn't just a book that you wrote.
Speaker B:This is a mission that you're on.
Speaker B:So can you tell me what was the need that you saw that prompted you to focus on this message?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Even in the church and among Christian women, I'm still seeing a lot of what we experience in the world.
Speaker C:And it's that insecurity, striving for approval and validation.
Speaker C:Social media, I think, has just, of course, put that on steroids.
Speaker C:The comparison, constantly comparing someone else's journey to your own and feeling you don't measure up.
Speaker C:And just as like I did, even as a Christian, a pastor's wife, a Christian leader, not realizing I was not placing my identity firmly in who I am as God's daughter because of my relationship with Christ.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I agree with what you said about social media.
Speaker B:I think it's interesting.
Speaker B:I read this one time that things that sometimes we will post on social media, if we took those out of context and put those in another framework.
Speaker B:Somebody said if when I was growing up, my mother would have put a sign in the front yard telling all the neighbors what we were having for dinner, I would have gotten beaten.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's something that can sometimes be a little weird about some of the things that we post, you know, in other settings, but here a lot about identity.
Speaker B:And it is such an important topic.
Speaker B:But sometimes it can also be a little hard for us to wrap our brains around what exactly is identity?
Speaker B:To bring that down to a very real level.
Speaker B:And so you would have shared about that.
Speaker B:Your own experience of a physical and mental health crisis that's deeply shaped your ministry.
Speaker B:And so can you just share with us what led up to this crisis?
Speaker B:And looking back, what are the red flags that you can identify that other people might be able to learn from so they can catch things earlier in their own life?
Speaker C:I married my husband, who's 10 years older than I am.
Speaker C:So when I was 22 years old, I became a pastor's wife.
Speaker C:And I had had a season of rebellion, you know, walking away from the Lord, being very worldly.
Speaker C:When we watched my mother die of cancer, it brought me back to reality.
Speaker C:Where are you going to spend eternity?
Speaker C:And back into the arms of my Savior.
Speaker C:And then I met my husband, and we got married.
Speaker C:And so it was like, okay, I'm a Christian.
Speaker C:He's a really, really.
Speaker C:And so we're just gonna have this Christian family, and nothing can go wrong, right?
Speaker C:Because we're Christian.
Speaker C:When there are things in your past that you've never looked at or dealt with, it's like when you bury pain, when you bury it alive, it just festers, you know, and soars and it.
Speaker C:There's only so long.
Speaker C:Someone else compared it to the beach ball, trying to hold a beach ball underwater.
Speaker C:When you have more than one beach ball underwater and you have this trauma from your past, and all of a sudden they start popping up and you can't do it anymore.
Speaker C:You can't hold them down anymore.
Speaker C:And that is what I came to.
Speaker C:And I had just, again, I was going to be the perfect pastor's wife, the perfect mother, you know, have people in our home every Sunday.
Speaker C:I'm teaching Bible study.
Speaker C:I'm working in children's ministry and doing all the things with each baby.
Speaker C:I'm homeschooling.
Speaker C:So by the time the fourth one came, it was just.
Speaker C:He was only a few months old when my health just fell apart.
Speaker C:And up until that point, I had been the picture of health always.
Speaker C:I was a kid that got perfect attendance at school.
Speaker C:You know, Stephanie, you probably.
Speaker C:I know you, so you.
Speaker C:I know you got an award for all A's.
Speaker C:I got an award.
Speaker C:Perfect attendance, you know, but, yeah, it's.
Speaker C:And in the church, I took what we do in the world, all that striving, and I Christianized it.
Speaker C:And so I'm striving and doing all the things, but I'm doing it for God and for the church, Therefore, it's a good thing.
Speaker C:But when we're walking in an area where he hasn't called us.
Speaker C:And when we're striving, when our primary motive is what is this person thinking of me?
Speaker C:And trying to prove our worth through these things we're doing.
Speaker C:And that is just a dangerous trap and it's not sustainable.
Speaker C:I was, again, another analogy, the chessboard.
Speaker C:I was constantly rearranging the chessboard to try and keep everyone happy, keep up the appearance.
Speaker C:And again, it's just.
Speaker C:It's impossible.
Speaker C:It's exhausting, and it's not what God has for his children.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And just to clarify here, there's a difference between someone who is trying to keep up appearances because they are intentionally living a double life.
Speaker B:You're talking about.
Speaker B:You're not talking about that.
Speaker B:You were intentionally living as a hypocrite, where it's like, I have this whole other life over here, but I'm going to try to keep up the masquerade.
Speaker B:Different than that.
Speaker B:And it's also, I think, so many times our motives are not just one.
Speaker B:And sometimes that makes it difficult to sort out because we have more than one motive.
Speaker B:And it's not that one is fake and one is real.
Speaker B:It's more a matter of levels of motivation.
Speaker B:So everything that you're doing wasn't just intentionally to get other people's approval, but they're certainly a part of that.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I'm sure that along with that, there's also a legitimate motive, desire to please God and to walk according to his calling.
Speaker B:And I'm glad that you talk about that, because understanding that, that mixed motive can sometimes make it hard for us to sort out and to be able to see the part that's.
Speaker B:Sometimes I think God allows us a period of time before he brings those things that are hidden to the surface.
Speaker B:Because maybe there are things that we can't handle.
Speaker C:Can't.
Speaker C:We cannot handle it all at once.
Speaker B:Until we get to a certain point that then he's going to be able to give us the strength that now we're like, okay, you know, now.
Speaker B:Now we can face this.
Speaker B:My son has an expression that says, you know, the things that we don't deal with, they go in the basement and they lift weights.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:Can you share with us a little bit more about, you know, you've referenced some of the past and unresolved trauma and things with that.
Speaker B:What did that look like for you?
Speaker B:And feel free to share as little or as much as you're comfortable with.
Speaker C:And Stephanie and I, I tell people, I'm not trying to throw my parents under the bus or Blame everything in life on them, you know, they were a product of their own trauma, an unresolved trauma, you know.
Speaker C:And so they came into a marriage not knowing what to do like I did, you know, but it wasn't a healthy home, it wasn't a healthy marriage and I believe had mental health struggles that he self medicated.
Speaker C:And then with me being there's four girls, just four girls, no brothers, and I'm a middle child and so I'm phlegmatic personality and then I'm in the middle.
Speaker C:And my whole goal was to not set somebody off, not make them angry because it was scary when my dad got angry.
Speaker C:It wasn't physical, but it was very scary.
Speaker C:The yelling, you know, as a child.
Speaker C:And so you're just walking on eggshells and striving to do what you can, you know, everything in your power to do what's right so he doesn't get upset and you're walking that tightrope.
Speaker C:But what worked one day might make him mad the next day, depending on where he was in his life and what was happening that day.
Speaker C:And so again, it was just impossible.
Speaker C:That was kind of my mode of operation from a very young age is try and keep everyone happy, try not to get anyone upset.
Speaker C:And it just left me with a sense of I really didn't know who I was, so I would be who you wanted me to be so that we would have peace, you know, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:So absolutely.
Speaker B:All of us are shaped by what we experience growing up.
Speaker B:And I think that part of becoming a mature adult is owning the humility that that teaches us that we are not self made people.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:We are so shaped by what we experience, the good and the, the bed of growing up and taking ownership of those, the impact of those things, you know.
Speaker B:As an adult, however, I know that there, there are people, I think less now than what there once was.
Speaker B:But there are people who can hear somebody talk about resolving issues from their past, especially from their childhood, and they can kind of have the attitude of, seriously, I'm so tired of listening people whine and blame their issues on their parents and what happened when they were 8 years old and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:What would you say to people who might still kind of have that mindset?
Speaker C:I was that person in a sense because I didn't think I had any problems.
Speaker C:I had all these horrible symptoms coming out, the people pleasing, striving for validation, all those things until I just was physically, mentally, emotionally just wiped out, like, oh well, maybe I do need to address Some things from the past.
Speaker C:But until that point, it was, no, I'm good, I'm a Christian, why would we.
Speaker C:Forgetting what lies behind and pressing forward to what's ahead.
Speaker C:I mean, I knew all the scriptures, Stephanie, that I could give you a reason why, but I was applying them in the wrong way.
Speaker C:And if your past is affecting your present, then you need to deal with it.
Speaker C:And dealing with it, as you talked about, it's not getting stuck in shame and it's not getting stuck as a victim because that is not what our Father has for us either.
Speaker C:We cannot tell him on the last day, oh, but I had this, this, this, and this happened to me.
Speaker C:No, we're responsible to look at the pain, deal with it, work through it and then move forward.
Speaker C:And my prayer is, I can help those who are still stuck in pain and don't realize it.
Speaker C:It's always for the purpose of healing, restoration, moving forward, not getting stuck as that victim and blaming all, everything, all my own sin on someone else.
Speaker B:Right, exactly.
Speaker B:You know, one of the things that came to me several years ago, because I can definitely relate to what you are saying, is that when we take ownership of something, when I own something, then I have the freedom to do what I want with it.
Speaker B:I can keep it, I can sell it, I can throw it in the trash, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:But when I have borrowed something, I don't have that freedom.
Speaker B:I may be able to have the capacity to do that, but I don't have the right to do that.
Speaker B:And so when we look back, it's again, it's not for the purpose of blaming, it's for the purpose of taking ownership.
Speaker B:Even if that's taking ownership of the impact of someone else's decisions that we didn't have any say in, we didn't have any control in.
Speaker B:But being able to say now that I, I'm going to own the impact of those decisions in my own life.
Speaker B:And this is what leads to the freedom to be able to say, I'm going to keep what's good, I need to deal with this, I need to discard this, I need to get rid of this.
Speaker B:So I love the fact that you are identifying.
Speaker B:One of the things, you know, as you were talking about this is that you identified something specific that you could see was a pattern that was still happening in your life as an adult.
Speaker B:It's that people pleasing, I'm going to keep everybody happy so that what, you know, you're not going to get upset, probably as a pastor's wife, you're not going to leave the church, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:No pressure.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So there is this tension that exists for us as adults.
Speaker B:And how do I take ownership of the impact of things that I didn't have anything to do with?
Speaker B:And that doesn't just happen to us as kids.
Speaker B:There are things that we can experience as adults we didn't ask for, but we are deeply impacted by.
Speaker B:So how do we navigate the tension between taking ownership of those things and then taking ownership of the choices that we have made, even if it's been a response to those patterns of thought and behavior?
Speaker B:How do we navigate this tension in a way that leads us into freedom and not victimization, not blaming, not hopelessness?
Speaker B:What are some things that you have found and practiced in your life to be able to do that?
Speaker C:I think, Stephanie, again, just taking an honest look.
Speaker C:Because my mode of operation also all through life was minimize whatever happened and move on.
Speaker C:Minimize it and move on.
Speaker C:And that is not when Christ is calling us to freedom and forgiveness in these things.
Speaker C:And ownership, as you said, minimizing it isn't owning it.
Speaker C:You know, and staying bitter and angry and letting that root of bitterness grow, that's not taking ownership either.
Speaker C:So it's that honest look of no, that really did hurt.
Speaker C:And sometimes we have to feel that pain that we've numbed for so long.
Speaker C:And I'm not going to lie to the audience and tell them that that's easy and that's fun because it's not.
Speaker C:And it's a lot of work, but it's soul work.
Speaker C:And there's such beauty on the other side.
Speaker C:So when your motive is first of all realizing everything you have been forgiven of from Christ, then we can take an honest look of these things that were done to us and ask him, give us that power to forgive them, but also recognize the way that that hurt me.
Speaker C:But I can own, like you said, my response to that.
Speaker C:Am I going to stay bitter and angry?
Speaker C:Am I going to bury it?
Speaker C:Am I going to, you know, pretend like it never happened?
Speaker C:Or am I going to take an honest look, work through it with Christ and His power in the Word?
Speaker C:I tell people when I first started, saw a therapist, and it was only because my husband asked me to, you know, I was just.
Speaker C:I still didn't think I had any problems.
Speaker C:Something's going on physically, but I don't have any problems.
Speaker C:You know, I'm a Christian, my pastor's wife, I teach the Bible, you know, and then that's the other funny thing, too.
Speaker C:People would say oh, you're always so humble.
Speaker C:I'm like, well, that's pretty proud to think that I didn't need help, you know.
Speaker C:But anyway, therapist, he pointed out that I had made people an idol, you know, that that was idolatry, the way that constant trying to please people, keep them happy, make them like me.
Speaker C:So my initial response though, was to go home and look at all the scriptures on idolatry and that's a really bad sin.
Speaker C:And start slapping all these Bibles.
Speaker C:I'm not going to do that anymore.
Speaker C:That's bad, you know, move on again, that's not dealing with it.
Speaker C:Why had I made people an idol?
Speaker C:Why was it so important, important to me that people like me, that people think I'm nice?
Speaker C:You know, again, it goes, those are just symptoms.
Speaker C:All those things we're talking, they're just symptoms.
Speaker C:We got to go.
Speaker C:What is the root of the issue?
Speaker C:Do we really understand who God is?
Speaker C:As a tender and loving father, I understood Jesus, you know, Jesus loves me.
Speaker C:This I know, for the Bible tells me so.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:But it's not good cop, bad cop.
Speaker C:God is the one who sent his Son for us, you know, before the foundation of the world, that eternal love for us and for Christ followers.
Speaker C:And so getting to the root of that and it takes a lot of going back to the scriptures, reading it as a whole.
Speaker C:Yes, God is a righteous judge, but he's also a tender father to the believer.
Speaker C:And so really letting those scriptures soak in.
Speaker C:And again, Stephanie, it's a process.
Speaker C:I respond differently today than I did a year ago, but I haven't arrived.
Speaker C:It's a process.
Speaker C:Something will still.
Speaker C:I know trigger is a big word, but it triggered by something.
Speaker C:I'm thinking, why am I responding like this?
Speaker C:And I'll look at it, deal with your sin, deal with the hurt, deal with whatever it is.
Speaker C:And it's a healing journey and it's.
Speaker B:A beautiful journey that you do speak about that as a journey.
Speaker B:You know, at this point in my life, I have realized that some of the beliefs that I had when I was younger were far off base.
Speaker B:I thought by the time you hit 30, you probably just coast through the rest of life.
Speaker B:And then at 30, I figured at the age that I am now that by then you just have it all sorted out.
Speaker B:You could just spend the rest of your life helping other people.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:But I've realized that it is not about shame.
Speaker B:It is about God's love for us.
Speaker B:And as he reveals things to us, I've come to the point of Saying, you know what, there's going to be something or a whole list of things in my case that God is at work on until I take my last breath.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And that is something that, when I accept that, okay, that's just the course of human nature and that's just part of this whole process of life, rather than, oh, there's something inherently wrong with me that I haven't arrived yet, then it takes the pressure off.
Speaker B:And I'm able to look at that and say, okay, God, this is something that we're going to work on.
Speaker B:And that doesn't make it easy, but it does take some of the weight of feeling shame off.
Speaker B:You've talked about people pleasing and you know how the counselor advised, you know, that's really kind of idolatry, Cheryl, and I'm glad that you speak about that because we do hear a lot.
Speaker B:I don't know about men, but I do know in women's circles that we can hear a lot about people, please.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm a people pleaser.
Speaker B:And sometimes I hear that almost like it's a badge of honor, people.
Speaker B:And because it sounds so tame, it sounds so warm and it's an acceptable sin, or is it even really a sin?
Speaker B:Maybe it's just kind of, you know, not a great thing that we're talking about.
Speaker B:It is not freedom and it is keeping us to be.
Speaker B:And it also can keep other people from becoming who they need to be because like you were talking about, when we minimize the hurt that someone else causes us, then we're letting them off the hook.
Speaker B:Not in a healthy, here's an account, you're forgiven.
Speaker B:It's, you know, and so we can also impede other people's growth.
Speaker B:Not that they're responsible for that, but we do have own our impact, you know, on others with that.
Speaker B:So thank you for, for sharing honestly about that and not glossing it over like it's something that's somehow cute.
Speaker B:And, oh, yes, because like in a women's group, somebody says, oh, I'm a people pleaser, they're going to get a whole different response than if somebody said, oh, I'm engaged in adult.
Speaker B:I think that sin has a different impact, you know, so I'm not equating all sin in terms of the weight of its impact, but just that we recognize that that's a bondage that we can get stuck in.
Speaker D:We're going to stop the interview here today.
Speaker D:We will continue with this next week in part two.
Speaker D:We're going to focus and talk more about recognizing patterns in ourselves and in relationships, the importance of community, and the discernment to recognize between people that are helpful for us and people who are not helpful and maybe they're just not a good fit.
Speaker D:We're also going to unpack a little bit more about Cheryl's book Securely Held, and you're going to learn a little bit more about her as a speaker as well.
Speaker D:All right, my friend, thank you so much for being with me.
Speaker D:Hey, share this episode with other people that you know and leave a rating and review.
Speaker D:And if you haven't already, make sure you go to the website Stephanie presents.com Sign up for the weekly newsletter High Impact and check out everything that Cheryl has in today's show notes and make sure to visit her website and get her book as well.
Speaker D:You definitely want to get this.
Speaker D:Okay, that's going to wrap us up for today.
Speaker D:And remember this, you have an impact that is immeasurable, eternal, and irreplaceable.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening.
Speaker A:Visit the website stephaniepresents.com and sign up for High Impact to join the mission of building spiritually strong, emotionally healthy and relationally smart women and families.
Speaker A:You can also book Stephanie to speak at your event and check out additional resources.
Speaker A:Together we can invite and equip generations to engage fully in God's grand story.
